We interview Jann Arden, singer, song-writer, and star of Jann on Hulu.
Tune in to learn more about Jann’s journey including bringing her show to air, her powerful advocacy, and the personal stories and humor she brings to her work. And you’ll get to know what’s coming in the next season of Jann!
Editing done by Matt Quandt from I Edit Podcasts
Jann’s Social Media:
Angel in the Wings (Olivia Newton John with Jann Arden):
youtube.com/watch?v=xqld4JAvrUQ
Watch Jann on Hulu:
hulu.com/series/jann-19dd7868-3888-4b95-9c51-0c9d7ed7efaa
Transcript available on our website
BJ (00:09):
Welcome to The Pilot Podcast. This week, we have a special interview. Today we're joined by Canadian singer, songwriter, actor, show creator, and star of Jann on Hulu, Jann Arden.
Jann Arden (00:23):
Yay!
Mitu (00:23):
Welcome, Jann!
Jann Arden (00:24):
We finally got it together. I screwed up last time. I'm like, uh, I just felt so bad. Anyway, I'm so glad to see you guys. Technology is amazing. You guys are down there, you know, around D.C. and I'm up here in Southern Alberta in the sticks and we're making it work. So, it never, ever ceases to amaze me what technology does and is, and how it connects people. It's just amazing.
Mitu (00:50):
That's true. I, we're so grateful that you can join us today and it is so cool that there is this just like larger connecting forest through technology, and just the enjoyment of humanity and storytelling. And so we wanted to jump right in to talking about Jann on Hulu, which we both sincerely fell in love with. How did you balance writing a show that had what I assume are winks and nods to Canadians and Canadian culture, and also for this larger global audience that you have now? Was that your intent as you wrote and shaped the story?
Jann Arden (01:27):
Believe it or not, we didn't even give it a s- a single thought. We always kind of thought in an international sense. I mean, the goal all along was to make the show and be able to find an American partner. We're very close to having a European partner now, but we, we didn't think it was Canadian at all, which really makes me kinda laugh. I know you probably wouldn't know who Rick Mercer is. He's a Canadian television, uh, star up here, but we didn't think that even if we had cast someone very well- known in the part of this comedian that comes to Jann's house to roast her mom for her birthday, we didn't think it would make any difference if it was Rick, uh, or just an actor, you know, from the union or, you know, let's say Ryan Seacrest.
Jann Arden (02:17):
We didn't think that the part in and of itself would be, it would still work no matter who it was. That I was looking for this guy to come and roast my mom. So, we've tried not to be too Canadian. And, uh, I've been saying in interviews for the last two months that you don't need to have any idea of what Canadian culture is, uh, in order to understand the humor and the humanity of the show. But I think I really find it really super cute that it seems Canadian 'cause maybe we just can't take the Canadian out of ourselves.
Mitu (02:51):
(laughs). It was very sweet to see the character Cale sort of lose it over Rick Mercer. And that was also just a nice display of humanity that typically she's so buttoned up and such a boss. And she just, I think got drunk if I can remember correctly.
Jann Arden (03:08):
(laughs).
Mitu (03:08):
Just totally lost her faculties around him.
Jann Arden (03:11):
Yeah. And the funny part is, Elena Juatco who plays Cale is not really that familiar with Rick Mercer. (laughter) She's 30 years younger than me. No, she's not 30 years younger. She, I think Cale's early 30s if that. I'm 58. she knows kind of who he is, but she doesn't know who he is. I fucking know who he is.
Mitu (03:36):
Hmm (laughs).
Jann Arden (03:37):
I've worked with, with, uh, if you go on and to Google or YouTube or whatever, and you punch in Rick Mercer and Jann Arden, I've worked with him for 15, 18 years doing ridiculous things, walking on top of the tallest building in Canada, riding bulls, going on the world's fastest zip line, like paint balling and shooting each other in the crutches.
Mitu (04:00):
( laughs).
Jann Arden (04:00):
Uh, ridiculous. And you don't have to be Canadian at all to laugh at that. So, yeah, some people, you know, Elena doesn't really know who Rick is.
Mitu (04:11):
We, (laughs) we actually had a chance to speak with Elena as well about the show, and we forgot to bring that up. So, then (laughs) that's helpful context for that. And unlike the version of yourself that you portray on TV, where your Tinder and your Twitter get mixed up to some pretty (laughs) hilariously disastrous results, you're pretty prolific on social media. So, I've read so many of your posts about your life at home, your mom, your animals, your advocacy. What drives you to be such an open book through all of these different mediums? Your music, books, shows, social media, all of it.
Jann Arden (04:50):
I think as I've gotten older, you know, I realized that my, my biggest limitation is time. I would love to say that I'll make 75 or 80. I mean, I treated my body like crap for a long, long time. I was drank too much for a long, long time. And I think as you kind of encroach on that idea, and I don't mind thinking about death. I don't mind entertaining the idea. Um, I'm not afraid of it. My, my mom was so intrepid. She was a great teacher and certainly my true north for sure. But she was very like, well, why don't you die? That's what happens. You're not even gonna know. And I think, you know, and she was very, she wasn't a religious person, but she really felt that about life being eternal. So, anyway, having said all that, you know, you start looking around you and you realize that everything wants to live. Everything wants to live.
Jann Arden (05:44):
I think COVID has shone a light on a lot of fractured parts of our society. You don't have to be Canadian, or European, or American to understand that what was broken is pretty much across the board broken globally. Animal welfare, homelessness, the care of our elderly. So, long-term care, it got massacred. Slaughterhouses. So, our version of wet markets, you know, people tended to be, uh, and you've seen it, very racist about the COVID virus. Uh, the Asian population in Canada has faced very similar things to what they have faced globally. In the United States that, Oh, the, the disease came from, you know, China and you know, all that bullshit. And what they have endured through that. But our version of an open market, you're dealing with countries that don't have refrigeration, that don't have what we have here. They don't, they don't have kill floors like we do it here industrially.
Jann Arden (06:44):
Canada and America are the same that way. We have industrial protein farming. So, anyway, long story short, you, you look at that and you look at systems that were broken and COVID shone a light on that. So, good things come out of bad things. People realize that they just can't keep going forward the way they are. So, I, I've been working with horses in particular the last 10 years, just because they're, they are companion animals, and they carved out the world really the last 40,000 years. They've taken us places that we never dared imagined to go. They brought us, you know, across the plains and the country. Uh, I mean all over the world globally, it doesn't matter if you're in Mongolia, or in Turkey, or wherever you are, the horse was really instrumental in, you know, human beings going forward. So, in Canada it's, they don't even do it in the States.
Jann Arden (07:38):
You guys actually have stopped doing it in 2006, and that is the slaughtering of horses, but they do get shipped up to Canada. So, I've been fighting that. You know, horses come up here because it's loopholes, and then they put them on horses and ship them across the sea. And it's really awful. So, I figure, I'm gonna be dead at some point, you start thinking about legacy. I really wanna fight hard to get this stopped. I never ever wanna tell people what to eat or how to treat their bodies, but we still can be humane, we can fight very hard for the treatment of animals. Obviously, we're gonna continue to eat animal proteins as we go forward, but we need to do a much, much better job of it. And because I have a platform, maybe not so much in the States, but certainly here, when I started screaming, people start listing. We had a huge expose done by, uh, uh, one of the major networks here, uh, last week, and it really shook things up. People just didn't know what was going on.
Mitu (08:37):
It's actually beautiful to hear you speak about this. And as we said, we dug into your social media and, and your music and your books. And especially on your social media, I saw that you were dropping off merge to people's homes. I think it was called-
Jann Arden (08:53):
(laughs).
Mitu (08:53):
... the horseshit merch [line] (laughter) in order to draw attention. And so it's so cool to see that you're talking about this and you're highlighting things, but you're also doing so much work and whatever you can, as you said, to work for our fellow earthlings and for our planet to go forward. And as you said, there are so many lessons we've learned from COVID. And, and one for me is this idea of collectivism, that we are all responsible for each other, and that, that includes the, all of the earth, including our environment, and the animals, and our fellow people. And so that's just so beautiful to hear you talk about.
Jann Arden (09:36):
Yeah, we can do a lot better and COVID has broken down so many things. As much as we've seen a lot of bad things, I've seen beauty in human beings that I never thought I'd see. The helpfulness, the work at the food banks, people genuinely dropping off codes to homeless people. It's very cold up here. Uh, we've had an oppressive winter. I saw people step into themselves, a lot of bad things, but, but good things as well. I've, I've tried to focus on that, you know, with you guys, uh, just stumbling across your podcast. It really made me laugh so much. And, and, you know, I've listened to a few episodes and, and just the kind of stuff that you're watching and the commentary you make, I think we've all realized how we were all kind of in our houses, watching stuff.
Jann Arden (10:24):
And, uh, you guys just made me laugh and I'm thinking, Oh, I got to check that out. I need to check that out. I need to check that out. So, tip of the iceberg, uh, I think we're really gonna move forward in a very magnificent way. I think change has just taken us all. Um, real, real change. Real, profound change. We can't, we don't wanna go back to normal. It wasn't very good. It wasn't very good. So, I think the new frontier or whatever we're taking on, it's pretty exciting to know that we have this information now and we can't go back.
Mitu (11:04):
Yes, that's, (laughs) we can't. So, switching gears, uh-
Jann Arden (11:08):
(laughs).
Mitu (11:08):
... and, (laughs) and talking about-
Jann Arden (11:11):
Oh, we've saved the world. Now let's (laughter)
Mitu (11:15):
Yes, we did it! So, speaking of global audiences though, Jann is now on Hulu. So, it is reaching so many more people. How has your experience been on social media now that people are experiencing your work through a platform as huge as Hulu?
Jann Arden (11:36):
Well, it's really funny. So many people are like, Oh my God, that's the woman that sang “Insensitive.” I love that song when I was eight. And, uh, I think it's great. I love that people are understanding the humor. That they're laughing even if, even if it's, it's a little bit, uh, they're not exactly sure why the, the physical comedy part of it, the family. You know, a family is a family, is a family. And, you know, their broken memory loss is memory loss, is memory loss. Dementia is, doesn't matter what country you're in. It's the same horrible, you gotta laugh at it. Thing that happens to a family, it breaks it apart. You don't know what to do. There's very few resources.
Jann Arden (12:19):
The information is very scattered all over the place. Uh, one physician will say one thing, another physician, they don't really know why. But at the heart of it is, it takes a family apart. And no one knows, no one wants to assume the responsibility. And we think that resonates. In Canada there's 38 million people. A million of them have memory loss. Statistically the same in the United States. So, the numbers are the same. So, that has been the biggest thing for me guys is people saying, my grandmother, my mother, my sister, my partner, my, they're all like, it's so cool to see a character with memory loss. It's really weird, but it's like making me feel like I can laugh a little bit and not be so afraid. We try and keep our writing really legitimately authentic to what the testing is life with Alzheimer's.
Jann Arden (13:15):
I'm just in the middle of filming season three. I'm so glad to have the day off today. It's killing me. I'm, like, memorizing 14 pages of dialogue every day. I'm just sitting here with my giant binder. But, um, the story really moves forward this year. I wish I could tell you. But we're laughing our heads off, but my mother's also getting worse, and she's doing weirder stuff. It's funny, but it's also like, "Ooooh."
BJ (13:39):
I really appreciate that kind of exposure. So I've had to deal with family members with dementia, and I did my graduate thesis on Alzheimer's disease.
Jann Arden (13:49):
What?
BJ (13:49):
So it's something that means a lot to me. And seeing-
Jann Arden (13:52):
Oh, man.
BJ (13:54):
... Yeah. Portraying that to people and letting them know what it's really like to be around someone experiencing that and that they can do funny, quirky things, but the family has to adapt to this change, and it's really out of a lot of people's control.
Jann Arden (14:10):
It's, it's devastating. But I know, you know, for me with my actual mother, I had to start laughing and finding humor in it, because it was so sad. And I looked after my, both my parents for almost 10 years, and I was trying to work in between. And I normally travel, like, 250 days a year or so. I was very fortunate that I was able to get help for my mom. My dad passed away three years before my mom.
Jann Arden (14:36):
But, uh, gah, man, I can't even imagine the kind of research that you came across and the numbers and the statistics. And, you know, there's not a lot they can do for it, still.
BJ (14:47):
That's true. Yeah. A huge portion is the caregiving aspect, you know. There's very little treatment, so it's just how can you make the best of the, that portion of their life? And so we've seen that kind of merging of your real life and your fictional life, but in real life, you're making great music.
Jann Arden (15:07):
(laughs)
BJ (15:07):
You have books. (laughs) You're onto season three of your show.
Jann Arden (15:10):
Yeah. I'm glad I'm not her. (laughs)
BJ (15:13):
(laughs) But we're wondering, why did you choose to write and create this version of Jann who's rock bottom in her career?
Jann Arden (15:20):
Well, I think it was very... I, I work with really great writers. The, the, uh, the women that I created the show with, Leah Gauthier and I go back a long time. She's quite a bit younger than me. She just turned 40. And she worked for me for q- on quite a few tours. She was one of the production managers on tours that I was on. And she was always like, "We should make a reality show." And I'm like, "You're insane. It's never going to happen."
Jann Arden (15:44):
Long story short, one of the producers of Schitt's Creek, Andrew Barnsley, somehow knew that Leah's sister knew me somehow. He's like, "How do we get to Jann Arden? How do I talk to her?" So Leah's sister spoke to her and said, "Yeah. Andrew Barnsley from, you know, from Schitt's Creek wants to talk to Jann."
Jann Arden (16:04):
So he had said to Leah that, you know, in a perfect world, if you were to do a television show, what would it be? And I was just like, "I'm not doing a television show." For one thing, I'm not an actor. I really, I mean, well, that probably shows, but it w- a year went by. I was just like, "I don't even know where I would put it, to be honest, and I don't know if..." I, I just didn't know even what that looked like.
Jann Arden (16:29):
So Leah flew here. She lives in Vancouver, which is, like, an hour flight away from, from Calgary. And I said, "What is a pitch document? What the hell is that?" And so we sat at my kitchen table, Leah and I, and we just laughed for a weekend, and we wrote down all these things.
Jann Arden (16:43):
And, and I knew that because I don't have very much acting, well, zero acting experience, that we needed to keep it kind of close to home, that I need to portray kind of a version of myself. You know, it's not like I was going to do monologues from Hedda Gabler or something like that. I wanted to do something that I thought I could actually do.
Jann Arden (17:06):
And you have to keep in mind, I never thought I'd get this off the ground. You know, I said to them, "Well..." My mom was still alive. W- Were both parents alive? And I said, "I have to be home. I'm looking after my parents."
Jann Arden (17:19):
So I'm thinking, "Calgary is not the artistic, uh, center of the world in Canada. It's either Toronto or Vancouver." So I'm thinking, "Soon as I say that I won't leave Calgary, it's going to go away." So I said-
BJ (17:30):
(laughs)
Jann Arden (17:30):
"... You know, if we do this, we have to do it in Calgary." Okay. And I'm like, "Oh, my God. What?" (laughs) And so, uh, we sent the pitch document and, and that's, that's kind of where it went. And we just, it, it just kind of morphed into this weird version of myself that wasn't doing very well.
Jann Arden (17:51):
You have to be careful with that, too, because I still wanted to be likable. I didn't want people to watch the show and hate me, so hopefully, they... The writers are great, Jennica Harper and Leah, Nelu Handa, JP Larocque, Mike McPhaden. They have written all the seasons. And, um, I'm involved in the storylines, but I'm not a writer of the show at all.
Jann Arden (18:14):
They just found that balance where I can redeem myself once in a while. Y- You don't l- look at it, I think, and just hate what I'm doing. I, I, hopefully, the physical humor part of it helps, and, you know, being willing to put on a ball suit is helpful. But, uh, it's been a really unique process, and I've been on a very big learning curve for television. But, yeah. I- It's definitely not me and my life. I'm glad I'm not her. I'm glad I'm not that blind to the carnage that I leave around me.
Jann Arden (18:47):
But I also think that TV Jann is, is likable enough that you have an invested desire to go forward watching the show. Like, what's she going to do next?
BJ (18:58):
Yeah. I think I can speak for Mitu and I that we do like TV Jann. She's fun to watch, and it's always fun to see, what is she going to do next? (laughs) Like, what can she get up to next?
Jann Arden (19:11):
Yeah.
BJ (19:11):
How can she react to the situation?
Jann Arden (19:14):
Oh, good.
BJ (19:15):
Or hopefully, how she will not react. (laughs)
Jann Arden (19:17):
Yeah. (laughs)
BJ (19:20):
Following up on the production and putting the show together, how was it pitching to Sarah McLachlan, K.D. Lang, Madeline Merlo, and other artists to join as these fictionalized versions of themselves? Because the lawn fight in season two, incredible. (laughs)
Mitu (19:38):
(laughs) The curse of the McLachlan tour.
Jann Arden (19:41):
The lights falling. The piano starts on fire.
Mitu (19:45):
(laughs)
Jann Arden (19:45):
Everyone is barfing up chili. Uh, she was such a great... I, we tried to get her for the first season, but I think she was on tour. But I've known Sarah for years, and she was very game.
Jann Arden (19:56):
I love it when people can come on, portray themselves. Uh, we just did Michael Bublé last week. We filmed with him. And I've known him for a long time. He and I have the same manager, Bruce Allen. And he's a Canadian kid, and I toured with Michael 2004, 2005. Like, three years. I toured with him all over the world. I opened the shows. And, uh, I was just like, "Oh, my God. I got to stop." It was grueling. But, uh, he was, plays himself. He is hysterical. We've got him singing, and I basically just went into my, you know, my phone book and asked him.
Jann Arden (20:37):
Elisha Cuthbert, who appears in the second season as this very naughty housewife Liz that loves Dave, I've, she's a Canadian girl. Her sister lives here in Calgary. I didn't know her personally, but I knew she was a Calgary girl.
Jann Arden (20:52):
And I had b- have followed her on Instagram for years. And I just DMed her, and I'm like, "Hi, Elisha. It's Jann Arden. Blah, blah, blah. I love you. Would you ever be interested in coming on the show?" And she was like, "Yeah." I was like, "What? Okay."
Jann Arden (21:07):
So all these... K.D. Lang, never met her before the show. Known for, obviously, she's a singer. She lives, she grew up about three hours from where I grew up. Country girl. And I sent her a DM on Twitter. (laughs)
Mitu (21:21):
That's so surprising, because your chemistry with K.D. Lang, the way that she was sort of poking at you and the music that you were choosing to do.
Jann Arden (21:30):
I met her that day.
Mitu (21:32):
That is so funny because y- your chemistry was so good, of her feeling, there was a sense of comfort there in her being like, "I would never do a Candy World themed song, and I stick to what I know." So that's so funny that, from that day, she was able to dig into that role. The two of you were able to connect like that.
Jann Arden (21:52):
Yeah. I was so nervous, because I've, you know, obviously long admired her. What a, really a voice of a generation. K.D. was just m- she still is magnificent. She's such a terrific singer. And, uh, you know, she was huge in Canada, like, before she was internationally successful.
Jann Arden (22:12):
But she drove there by herself. She had her own clothes on. She didn't do hair or makeup or anything like that. She sh- kept looking at her watch. She was like, "When are you gonna get me out of here? You know, it's my stepson's birthday. I've got to go make a cake." I'm like, "Oh, well, I guess we better get going." Everything seemed so chill. She was great.
Jann Arden (22:31):
So we think that having, you know... And we did give it some thought with Michael. We wanted somebody that had crossover appeal, that Americans didn't have to think about, "Who is this?" They might know her. They might not know her.
Jann Arden (22:42):
But we also felt like Sarah McLachlan is also international. Lilith Fair was massive. We didn't think that would be a stretch for an American audience to know Sarah McLachlan. Um, certainly much more than they would ever know me.
Jann Arden (22:56):
So hopefully, as we go forward, we can make sure that we (laughs) take the time to do something that's appealing to not just Canada and the US but also a European flavor, too. So Michael does very well in Europe, uh, so we're hoping that will be a really good little teaser for season three.
BJ (23:19):
So speaking of these characters who are going forward with you, there's my favorite character Cale, second to TV Jann.
Jann Arden (23:27):
She's, she's phenomenal. She's phenomenal.
BJ (23:32):
She's amazing. Your family, Todd, Cynthia. They all help take it from just humorous to even more slapstick, but also complicated and heartfelt. So how many of those characters were inspired or influenced by people in your life?
Jann Arden (23:50):
Nora, who, uh, Deborah Grover, who plays my mom, I had seen a whole bunch of self tape auditions, dozens, and Deborah was probably one of the first or second auditions that I saw, just by coincidence. And so I flew to Toronto when we had got these lists down. Todd was down to a short list with a few other people, Jason Blicker. Cale, uh, Elena Juatco, was down to a short list.
Jann Arden (24:20):
So flew to Toronto for, unbeknownst to me, what is called chemistry reads. So they wanted me to meet these people, and I actually read with three or four different versions of each person at the casting agency in Toronto.
Jann Arden (24:35):
And Deborah was so much like my mom physically, her demeanor, her actions. I couldn't, I d- never moved off of her once I read with her. My mom was never that bold and never that brazen, but I just thought, "This version of her would be great."
Jann Arden (24:53):
That's the nice thing about being able to do make believe at this age, is that I, for, you know, six, seven weeks out of the year when we're taping this show, I have my mom back. And, uh, it can be very emotional.
Jann Arden (25:07):
Like I said, I'm not really skilled at acting, but some of the scenes, like when my mom, in the first season, when Nora loses her purse and that I really realize there's something... There's so many takes where I could not stop crying, and it's not from acting. (laughs) I wish I could say, "Oh, I was acting." I'd get in the car, and I was just, felt so bad, because I just, just could not stop thinking about my mom and when she was losing stuff.
Jann Arden (25:34):
And that was a big part of, um, how we wrote the story, is me telling the girls about what my mom does and just how I tried to cover it up for such a long time, and I was in denial about it for a long time.
Jann Arden (25:47):
And, but, yeah. She's so much like it. I have met so many managers like Cale in my career that I'm just like, "Wow. You really are annoying-"
BJ (25:59):
(laughs)
Mitu (25:59):
(laughs)
Jann Arden (26:00):
"... and you're just so curt, and standoffish, and such a know it all, and you think you know everything, and- but Elena just nails that balance between that confidence, the way she carries her phone around, and she was that- she walked into that, the second she was on the set. She's just ... everyone, Todd, kind of the- I've had, you know, managers like him, you know, kind and doesn't really know everything about technology, but really believes in the music so much, and those guys never seem to get anywhere, you know? I love your singing, but beyond that, I really don't know how to make your career happen, you know, that you've worked together for such a long time, and you're friends. But you're- you're treading water. You're not getting any worse, but you're not getting any better.
Jann Arden (26:49):
So ... everyone just has stepped into themselves. Zoe Palmer, who plays my sister, Max, is- I- I think she- her and Deb are so much alike, to me physically, you know, as you know, you find out that she and I have different fathers. So it's all like, "This is coming together, it's no wonder I'm like, overweight and you look so friggin' great, and I'm ..." but everyone just found their way, and we all have such a- a great time.
Mitu (27:20):
That storyline was another great example of the balance of the- the difficult moments, and the humorous moments, because as a light spoiler for our listeners, she gets to meet her biological father, but in the scenes preceding and following that, you two are competing at this karaoke, and ... (laughs) and she can't speak to him, she sort just shouts statements at him. Like-
Jann Arden (27:50):
(laughs) Yeah.
Mitu (27:50):
"You are sitting on a stool." Or, like, "I am standing in front of you." And so, I found myself like, truly cackling, but then, you- she has these small moments, and that's such a testament to both the storytelling, and the acting, 'cause in those like, small moments, it's like, sobering, and you go, "Oh yeah, like, her entire world has been upended. This isn't just funny, and this isn't just them competing over-"
Jann Arden (28:14):
Can you imagine?
Mitu (28:14):
"... what turns out to be a meat basket." I can't.
Jann Arden (28:17):
I- I thought about that too, and the fact that she really didn't know until she was an adult. I think it's a kick in the ass. And shame on Nora, really. I know we all really want to pat her on the head, and treat her with kid gloves, because she's going through memory loss. I think it was a terrible decision, on Nora's part, with my biological father, in the show, to not tell her. And I didn't know, either. TV Jann doesn't know.
Jann Arden (28:50):
So, you know, we've talked about that, writing it. I think it's a ... it was a terrible decision, and Max has every right to be disappointed with that decision. "Well, you know, we had our family and ..." and you know, she's trying to explain it off, but we're not done with that yet. I still think that story is ... there's pieces that need to be put together there, and Max still isn't ... she's still not over it. And we continue on with Marty and Nora, and Max's story, as we go forward, to kind of move some of those rocks around. Because that's too simple of an ending, and she didn't really get- she was so shocked when she met him at the bar, and it was funny, but it was kind of heartbreaking.
Jann Arden (29:35):
Like, I looked at her, you know, when Marty's like, "Jann Arden's here, and we'd like to get her up on stage to sing," and she is just ... you can see this look on her face, like, "Holy shit, this was ..." I'm like, "Do you want to get out of here?" She's like, "Yeah." So I'm glad that my character makes the decision to ... "This is really uncomfortable for her, I need to help my sister and get out of there." So no matter how much they fight, and no matter how much they compete, at the end of the day, they're sisters, and they- there is a- an age disparity with them, you know, obviously Max came along kind of as a mistake, long after I did. But the loyalty, I think is always there, and that's kind of neat to know.
Jann Arden (30:15):
And I never had sisters, I had two brothers, in my own life. So ... but anyone that I talk to about having a sister, they're like, "Oh my God, you fight so much. But the love is so big, and you just ... you don't screw with a sister." You can be mad at them, and you know, be really ... but nobody else can.
Mitu (30:33):
That's beautiful, and it's true that when Jann says, "Do you want to get out of here?" I think that really helps ground the moment, the ... Jann on the show, I should say. As we've seen over the course of the seasons, she's not one to turn down an opportunity to perform, she was helping herself to the Bloody Mary bar, with all of the different snacks, she's having a good afternoon, and so she really had to be in tune with her sister to walk away from the ... was it the stacks of grilled cheeses on the- on the tomato juice, and turning down the opportunity to perform, and- and redeem from the prior karaoke situation.
Jann Arden (31:11):
Yeah, those are the moments that the writers give me, is that she's not all completely self centered. She does catch herself, and I'm not ... when they're driving home in the car, and they're singing the song again, it comes on the radio, and- and they're kind of having that moment like, "Yeah, we really miss Dad, and Dad really did like you, and you were the talented one," and they had these moments, and then were right back into it again, were right back into the- the- back in the- in the back yard of the house, they're having the hamburgers and everything, and I'm saying, "Meat is murder," and we're just, we're right back at this- this moment between these sisters, where, "Okay, we had that moment, and now we're back to being competitive again, and so ..." But it's- it's really fun to see it all unfold and I'm so grateful to have this opportunity to learn more about myself, and to try things that scare the crap out of me, and to ...
Jann Arden (32:06):
Uh, I think it's really helped my music, as well. I mean, I wrote a- a- a record this year, during the pandemic and while I was, you know, working on the show with the girls, and we were doing it all by Zoom, and ... I just kept thinking how grateful I was to be in a position to entertain people, and to bring a thoughtfulness, and you know, we were all scrambling for content, and I think, you know, by the summer of last year, we were like, "I hope they keep making TV 'cause I just went through Netflix." So, I'm so glad to just be doing things that I think people will- will just make them forget for 23 minutes at a time. I'm grateful for that.
Mitu (32:50):
And we're grateful for that too, for your storytelling. As much as you're comfortable, can you share anything that's coming, that we can expect that is uncovered in the show? We leave season two with a lot of open ends with your personal relationships, with your career. So, I'm just curious, can you give us any hints?
Jann Arden (33:11):
Yes, absolutely. Well, Jann, in fine form, you know, asks Cynthia to marry her, in the hot air balloon ride, Cynthia says no. We really have loved delving into the fluidity of my character. I come back, guns a-blaring, in season three, Charlie, my niece has talked me into going onto one of those celebrity dating sites. They match me up with somebody, and it's this young man, and he's 25 years younger than I am, 'cause we really wanted to play on that narrative of the guy in the restaurant, "Oh, you brought your daughter with you," and it's- no, it's his wife, and they have a two year old, and he's, you know, 72 years old.
Jann Arden (33:53):
So we wanted to kind of jab at that societal thing, and it's very funny, and a guy named Charlie Kerr plays my boyfriend, Nate, but Cynthia's still in the picture, it still hasn't ended. It's still going on, it's kind of a nightmare, I am tugged in, you know, two directions. I like the adoration of this younger guy, but you know, does she love him? You know, I can't tell you that. Does she not? Is she just sort of basking in the attention, and here's Cynthia over here, and ...
Jann Arden (34:29):
We didn't bring COVID into it. We talked very early on, when we started writing the season, are they living in a COVID world? They're not. We don't go near it, it's not mentioned, it's like it never happened. And that was just a choice that we made artistically, we felt like people could suspend their imaginations, and their idea of what this alternate was, to forgo that. I know we saw a lot of television this year, especially in medical TV, episodical, you know, dramas, masks, COVID world, blah, blah, blah. We didn't do it.
Jann Arden (35:03):
But what we did do, is we needed to be safe. And so, as much as there's 100 people working on the show, there's a stringent guidelines, but the story ended up, itself, is the family, this year. There's some career stuff going on, but there is all the stuff with the family. Nora's disease kind of progressing, the boyfriend has turned everybody upside down. There's just a lot of ... Cale, her storyline, this year. I don't even know what to tell you. She is ... the wheels come off the bus. I'm just gonna say that.
Jann Arden (35:40):
Michael Buble, he steps in, he's extremely funny, he sings, he's self deprecating. It really is a great season. But it's Max and Dave, and it's their kids, and them realizing that they need help, and they kind of miss having Nora at their house, 'cause she's living with me, now. Yeah. Think Gray Gardens, let me just throw that out there. But we're- we're really pleased with it, though. Lots of laughs. So I- I think- I mean, I love both the seasons we've done, and I- much like my records, I never go, "Oh this is my best album, ever." I've done 15 records, I'm not ... I've been doing this all my life. Every time I make a record, it's just another representation of the piece of time that I'm in. That's what I always write to.
Jann Arden (36:25):
And I feel like the show is that, too. I- I- I feel like, we swung a pretty good swing at the first season. We had a few misses, but I think you did find out who this family was, you- you're always, you know, the question in television, and I'm sure you guys think about this a lot, when you start watching these pilots, and you start delving into these new programs. Where are we dropping people into this story? And so when you sit at a writing table, and you're talking about where- where- what's the start point? Where are we parachuting into?
Jann Arden (36:59):
And it is hard to decide. How much are we letting them know? How much do they have to figure out? And I bet you guys are getting so good at trying to uncover, are we given enough? Were we given enough to invest ourselves in this? Have we been given enough by episode four, to go ... am I going forward, am I not going forward? I've loved listening to you guys, in that regard, as to how you feel about the information you've been given.
Mitu (37:31):
Oh, tha- thank you.
BJ (37:32):
Thank you.
Mitu (37:32):
That's so kind of you.
BJ (37:33):
Yes.
Jann Arden (37:33):
No, but it's true. And you guys don't always agree.
Mitu (37:37):
No.
BJ (37:37):
No. (laughing)
Mitu (37:37):
We don't. (laughing)
Jann Arden (37:37):
You don't always agree. Like, sometimes you're gleaning way different things from each other. (laughing) I'm like, I didn't get that. But ... you know, so you're the pros, that way. I mean, I- I should have called you guys up-
Mitu (37:53):
(laughing)
Jann Arden (37:53):
Before I even started the show, going, "What do you need?"
BJ (37:55):
(laughing)
Mitu (37:55):
(laughing)
Jann Arden (37:58):
What do we need to do, so you don't shut us off?
Mitu (37:59):
(laughing)
BJ (37:59):
(laughing)
Mitu (38:02):
Well, BJ and I do agree in that uh, we're both very big fans of Keshia Chanté, and so we both gasped when we saw her playing Nia Taylor-
Jann Arden (38:12):
Wasn't she good?
Mitu (38:13):
Yes. How- how was it recruiting Keshia Chanté and are there any other new artists in Canada that are getting your attention, be it for music, or potentially for Jann?
Jann Arden (38:25):
Gosh, there's so many people that are so brilliant. Keshia is ... she's so good at so many things, and I think her part got much bigger when we realized, you know, this just isn't a show up, blah blah, blah. I mean, she sang a couple of times, in the show. And uh, we just really felt that that was important to show people what she does. I mean, she hosts, she acts, she ... I think she models. She does it all. But um, there's a few folk artists here that I would love to have. I mean, in a perfect world, I'd love to have Anne Murray. You guys might not remember that name, but you know, in the 70s there was a song called Snow Bird, and it was huge all over the world. And she's very iconic, I mean, what I wouldn't do to have, uh, Neil Young wonder onto our set. There's just- there's so many... Uh, Justin Bieber, there's- obviously, there's a wishlist that's very big. Sean Mendez, right, to wonder across us. In my world though, you guys, I- I would do anything to have Olivia Newton John or Bette Midler, and I- I sort of know them both.
Jann Arden (39:38):
Olivia, I- I sang a duet with her, you have to look it up when we hang up. It's called Angel In The Wings, it was like, one of the highlights of my life, Angel In The Wings with Olivia Newton John. Thank you very much, thank you Amy Sky. Amy Sky is a Candian- brilliant Canadian, singer\song writer that- that made that happen. But yeah, or- or Bette Midler, and I think you know, Bette's 75, she might be hanging up her spurs. I don't know, I feel like she could go til she's 100. But uh, uh, a woman named Rose Cousins is from Prince Edward Island, so it's The Meritimes, it would be your version of Martha's Vineyard on the Canadian Northern side. One of the most beautiful voices you'll ever hear, and as funny as the day is long. And I think Rose will eventually get on the show. Uh, we wanted to have her this year, and of course, Covid happened and no one was allowed to travel anywhere. But there's a lot of talent out there isn't there. I- I often find myself going down YouTube, or iTunes, or Spotify wormholes, where I start out listening to somebody, uh, like a folk artist and I end up somewhere in Scandinavia, listening to Icelandic music, so.
BJ (40:53):
So we have a lot of potential, you know, we foresee Jann going many seasons. So, there's a lot of time for people to come onto the set.
Jann Arden (41:02):
Well, I'll do it as long as people will have me. And, uh, we- we feel like Nora's progression is a slow one. My mom had Alzheimer's for a decade, and she presented very well. And that's what they call it, you know, they have these 20-minute cycles where you're like, "Your mom seems completely normal to me." And then as soon as that person would walk away, then the family sees the, "Where is my pants, where is my keys," their wandering off in the yard. And so my mom presented very well. People, they just didn't understand that she was even unwell, and that was frustrating for me. 'Cause I'm like, "Oh yeah, she's- she's unwell."
Jann Arden (41:42):
So, I feel like we've got time in that regard as well, to tell Nora's story, and to just get to know this family a little bit better. So, yeah, six, seven seasons would be- I'd be thrilled. But here we are in three and, uh, I feel really positive about it. We're thrilled to have Hulu as a partner, they've been exceptional to us. And you can't expect to climb up the mountain in two seasons, these things take time. Dan Levy often talks about Schitt's Creek, you know, he said, "If they'd taken us off the air at season three, we would never have had the time to get to know Moira and- and all the zany characters, and the beautiful storylines that they told. Everyone would have been nine Emmys later right. So, I think people have to give it a chance. And you can't make television as quickly as you'd like to. You know, you binge it, and you're like, "We want it now." You know, it takes us 10 months to get the other thing together, so.
BJ (42:41):
So, something we always ask for, of the creators who join us for interviews is, what advice do you have for our listeners who wanna get into the creative industry whether it's music or acting?
Jann Arden (42:53):
Talent is very subjective. And we know that because you guys are in an industry, your- that you look at so much television, you listen to a lot of music. We know it's subjective, what you like somebody else might hate. If you put 10 people in a room to watch the same program, you're gonna get 10 different opinions. So, what I tell young people constantly, is to be yourself, to not chase what anybody else is doing, to not listen to the radio or watch television and go, "Oh, I wanna- I wanna do something just like that." You know, do what you do. The only thing you have of value as an artist is your perspective, your opinion. And that is a subjective thing.
Jann Arden (43:41):
Art can't be judged, I mean, there's some things that are no-brainer's. Mozart was friggen Mozart, he was unbel- he left an unbelievable legacy behind him. Uh, Leonardo De Vinci, there are some things that are indisputable. That- no one can say Barbara Streisand doesn't have a beautiful voice. Even if you, "Oh, I don't really like that stuff, but holy crap could she ever sing." That's undispu- you know, it's the- it's indisputable. But i- in contemporary music now, we're like, is that good? I- I don't know, it's catchy, but are they a great singer? I don't know. So, persistence outweighs talent every single moment of the day.
Jann Arden (44:28):
And talent is something that you get better at when you're persistent. So, that's why I always put persistence before it. Every parent things their kid's the best. "Oh, my daughter, my son, oh, they're the best. Won't- k- you know, can you- we- we need to get a record deal." I'm like, "Well, get experience. I did every open mic night that I could when I was growing up." I used to just, especially as a late teenager, I'd you know, sing in coffee shops or bars, or at ski hills or whenever the hell. And you just eventually, one foot in front of the other. But yeah, persistence, that's all I would say. And if- if failing's the worst thing that happens to you, i- that doesn't matter. M- all my failures have been epic. And I continue to fail all the time, on a monthly basis I don't get it right.
Jann Arden (45:21):
And, um, those are- they're- they turn into- to small triumphs, they really do. And when you put them all into a bag, all those defeats and all those disappointments, there's a lot of power in that, because experience is valuable. I think parents are so quick to remove obstacles from their children's paths now, 'cause they don't wanna see them hurt or sad or blue. And they're doing them a huge disservice. I think the best thing my parents ever did for me was let me fail on my own terms, and it made me very diligent, very steadfast. And I don't mind failing, it's part of the process of being a creative person. So, yeah, keep going, persistence, I know it sounds corny, but within that persistence there's a lot of value because you get better at things you keep doing.
BJ (46:23):
No, that's beautiful advice, simple, but very impactful. And to wrap up, where can our listeners find and support you?
Jann Arden (46:31):
Well, you can drive to my house-
BJ (46:33):
(laughs)
Jann Arden (46:33):
... uh, I think- uh, I think, uh, BJ from, uh, D.C. it would take you ... you know, maybe a week and a half…
BJ (46:42):
Yeah, a nice road trip, yeah. (laughs)
Jann Arden (46:43):
... yeah, you'd have to stop and get, uh, pop and chips. That's what we call it up here in Canada. I think you guys call them sodas, a soda.
BJ & Mitu (46:50):
(laughs)
Jann Arden (46:50):
We call them pop. And, uh, yeah, @jannarden is my handle on- on Twitter, on Instagram. If you just punch in my name, Jann is two N's, J-A-N-N. And, uh, you can find the Jann show on Hulu, and, uh, tell your friends. But yeah, and my music's on Spotify iTunes, that's global, you can find that anywhere. Don't listen to too much of me, you'll- you'll probably nod off. Don't drive your car, you might fall asleep. No, it's- uh, I'm- I'm proud of the work that I've done. And, um, I don't think you'll hear me at a Rave, but you'll certainly hear me...
Jann Arden (47:26):
I- I'm for personal consumption, I'm- I'm- I'm the kind of music that you wanna listen to when you're by yourself to be reflective or to think about things. But I hear myself in Vegas a lot in the Casinos.
BJ (47:40):
Hmm...
Jann Arden (47:40):
Yeah, I- I don't know what that's all about, but maybe, uh, “Insensitive” makes people gamble, I don't know.
BJ (47:46):
(laughs)
BJ (47:48):
(laughs) We want to thank you again for joining us. This has been a lovely conversation.
Jann Arden (47:53):
My great pleasure. Thanks, and keep doing what you're doing. I- we appreciate the- our- our whole show was so touched by your- your support and your kindness. You know, we're new, it's always horrifying when people kind of go after you, but so far we've been very lucky. And- and, uh, having individuals, you know, you guys are just- have been incredible and you really lifted our spirits. And thank you.
Mitu (48:21):
Wow, thank you so much.