We interview the talented and funny Andrew Phung on this week’s episode of The Pilot Podcast!
Tune in to learn more about Andrew’s experience behind and in front of the camera with Run the Burbs on CBC & Hulu. We also dive into his time on Kim’s Convenience and Last One Laughing: Canada.
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Transcript available on our website
BJ (00:09):
Welcome to The Pilot Podcast. This week we have a special episode with a guest you may recognize previously from Kim's Convenience and, now, Run the Burbs on CBC and Hulu. Welcome to actor and comedian, Andrew Phung.
Mitu (00:23):
Welcome Andrew. Who'd you like to introduce yourself to our listeners?
Andrew Phung (00:27):
Uh, good afternoon, uh, the US of A. Uh, my name is Andrew Phung from up in Canada. Uh, happy to be chatting here and I'm so pumped to be on this podcast because I remember, I remember listening to it, like I was driving to the Science Center with my kids. And so a Google alert came up that like this, this particular episode, or you might have tagged me in it. And I was like, oh, I want to listen to it. And it was like really nice because like I like your point of view in reviewing shows, but also like one of my biggest frustrations at times is like a lot of the reviewers in North America are often white.
(00:58):
Like I'll always remember the first episode of Run the Burbs, and that's the one you watched, and there is this comment from like, a, a, maybe a white commentary person, I don't know. But one of the reviews was like, "Well, this family is not very Asian, they're eating hot dogs at the barbecue."
(01:12):
And I'm like, okay, yo, man. You got to see my dad at a BBQ, dude loves hot dogs. Okay. Like I just like, to me, it was like you boil us down, like you think we're going to have dim sum at this BBQ? No, like we eat... like we're, if, if you're like... 'cause like the thing is like when when we're in North America, North America in itself is a culture. You eat BBQ food, right? And so it's in that moment I was like, oh, that's already going to be a bit of a struggle because at times I think there's a bit of a disconnect. And so for me, so much of the show is just normalizing our existence in a North American context.
(01:49):
But anyways, yeah, when I was listening to your pod... I like, oh, this is really nice because you're, there's a specific point of view and I love that with content creators.
Mitu (01:57):
I appreciate you sharing that. Before we get into some of our questions, I didn't even think about, you know, you and your family having barbecue in that first episode. But my family also immigrated to the US, or to North America I should say, and one of the first foods they fell in love with was barbecue. And my mom actually worked at a BBQ restaurant and became like something of a pit master as one of her first jobs in the US. So she has like a secret BBQ recipe that she uses. So similarly, I, I could, if there were like a show about my life, someone would be like, "There's no way these East Africans would sit down and have like ribs." But actually, my mama's ribs are really, really good. (laughs)
Andrew Phung (02:37):
How, how dare they be proficient with meat?
Mitu (02:40):
Yeah.
Andrew Phung (02:40):
You know what I mean? Like. And it's like, no, no. You gotta see like where we come from we love meat, this is an expression... It's, it's it always like it, it's so surprising to me like I, I, you know, this this only comes up where it's like you see a thing and it's like well Asians don't do that. I'm like hold up, you can't put all Asians in one box because there are so many Asians. But also there's Asians within culture but then Asians within immigration patterns. Like if you're an Asian person living in Texas, you're a different...
(03:12):
Firstly, if you're a Chinese person or a Vietnamese person living in Texas, you're different than living in Toronto or Winnipeg, right? And so I, I, I think for me like that's the thing with storytelling is like we all have different stories. And, and something I've walked away with more and more is like it's less about authenticity and more about specificity. It's being specific to this family. It's specific to these characters. So if you have a character of color, they shouldn't represent all one billion people that fall into that category, they should represent the specifically that one character and then whatever is relatable to people that watch that show so.
(03:53):
And then now that you say it, I want to eat your mom's BBQ. That's all I'm thinking of right now.
Mitu (03:56):
(laughs).
BJ (03:57):
She's a great cook. Anything her mom makes is good.
Andrew Phung (04:00):
(laughs)
Mitu (04:01):
(laughs)
(04:01):
That's true. Shout out to my mama. (laughs).
(04:04):
Speaking of telling stories with specificity, I feel like we got to see a lot of that on Kim's Convenience, and now with Run the Burbs. And I'm curious about, you know, you had like a several award-winning run on Kim's Convenience, did you bring any lessons from that show to Run the Burbs?
Andrew Phung (04:24):
I brought many lessons. Like firstly, I, I love making Kim's Convenience and and the show is such a hit in the US, like word of mouth hit, I love making it, I love being a part of it. And I think towards the end, there, there were some criticisms on the on the maybe lack of Asian writers in the writers room, possibly at times the lack of like cultural consulting, and really engaging with the performers and making them feel like they're part of the process.
(04:49):
So when that all happened, like for me it was an opportunity to internalize it. And so on my show, having a really diverse writers room. The one thing I request is that you have to have lived in the suburbs. Like, and I, and I don't think I'm being unfair in asking that. I'm like, but you have to understand the suburbs to write about the suburbs, and then within that we look for a wide variety of, of, of backgrounds and experiences. And that's really important.
(05:16):
It's like lived experiences. Because I don't want to boil you down to just like your skin color or your ethnic background. I actually want to know more about like what is your experience? What is, what have you lived in the world? And what point of view will you bring to the show? With cultural consulting, we have two cultural consultants, a Vietnamese cultural consultant, we have a South Asian cultural consultant, and a food consultant because so much of the show revolves around...
(05:40):
Well, firstly if you're going to put people of color on TV, you got to see the food. Like, you, we gotta see the food. And so as you if you go deeper and deeper into the seasons, there's so much more of an emphasis on food and how food looks and is is portrayed. And it's been so nice working with them. And then working with the performers and making them feel like they have a vested interest. So like in season two, one of my favorite episodes, is it's called Culture Fest, and there's a community culture fast and there's a fight that breaks out between Hudson, our neighbor, and his curry chicken, and my wife and her chicken curry. And then my mom rolls in and says, "Oh, yours both look and smell disgusting, mines better."
(06:21):
In Vietnamese is Cà Ri Gà. And so, it becomes a whole curry smack down and that came from Jonathan just going on and going into like a Caribbean accent and saying like, "It's curry chicken, it's curry chicken." And so it's like taking ideas like that or even our wedding episode is built around a joke that Ali Hassan had pitched us 'cause he has MC'ed so many weddings. So we're always like taking ideas from our performers. In in season three, we're doing an episode where my my sister, who's played by Kimberly-Ann Truong.
(06:54):
Kimmy said, "I really want to dissect the role of Vietnamese women in our community." So it's like, okay, that's the inspiration for the episode. It's always like connecting with the performers. Even Zoriah Wong, my daughter on the show, turned 16 and she's like, "I would love to drive." All right, we're writing a driving episode.
(07:11):
Yeah, it's those are the three pillars of like what I carried away from Kim's in the continuation of the work that Kim's did. And and what I want to applaud is like Kim's was like really one of the first of its kind that feels so authentic and specific and grounded. And so to be able to like carry on that torch means, uh, means everything to me. But those were like really the big lessons I took from the show.
Mitu (07:35):
Those are some really incredible lessons. Uh, I, just as an observer looking in, I remember a lot of the difficulty around the ending of Kim's Convenience. And, you know, some of the actors speaking out and having some issues. And so it's really cool to hear how you took that as a lesson for how to improve and do even better storytelling on your show. When you mention food I think about when your wife's character has her first catering job and her client, potential client, looks at her Instagram and they're like, "Whoa, we want hamburgers and fries. We want to make sure we can eat the food."
(08:13):
And so she tries to do the people pleasing, and then ends up ultimately making, you know, a mix of foods and, they, their favorite thing ends up being like chutney dip and things. And so, it's, it's really cool that you layer in the food in addition to to bringing in people's stories. And with that, you know, Run the Burbs is like comfort television. And that is, I mean, I saw that on your social media that people were posting that and you were sharing it. And it just really hit as a phrase for me, like it's just one of those shows that feels good when you watch it. And I'm curious, like as an executive producer of the show, as someone who is in front of and behind the camera, how do you bring those elements of such like comforting show to watch?
Andrew Phung (08:57):
Well, I will say, what I, what I really liked of your, when you reviewed the the pilot episode was like you were just talking about comfort, you put it on when you're like eating or like doing stuff. And I think we need to talk about trauma in communities of color. Because so much of the content I feel being created is often rooted in, in, in our deep trauma, which is great because I think it's a way for us to process it, for us to educate and to share. It's, it's therapeutic. But there is something about, at the same time, of like having a show that isn't rooted in our trauma. And what I, what we wanted with the show was just to show a family living their best life, because like suburbs are often really the only place where families of color, new immigrants can have a home, can own a little bit of land, can have a yard, can take their kids to the park. And so oftentimes, we look at the suburbs and you see like just like wonderful little communities pop up.
(09:58):
I was talking to my friend the other day and I was like, "Oh," he was talking to me about this new restaurant. I'm like, "Oh, where is it, little India?" And little India in Calgary popped up literally in the middle of this industrial area, where there was like a bunch of like open, open buildings and no one would rent them so like the Indian community came over and took it over. And so I love that.
(10:16):
And so we're in the suburbs, we never see ourselves in the suburbs if you never show us in the suburbs. And so it's made out to be this like white picket fences, white family dream, when in actuality, what I think has happened is like the suburbs were actually created, or or like in the last 30 years of really like expanded for families of color to be able to own a home. And so we wanted to like take that and create comfort television to show a family living their best life. We didn't want to just root it in trauma, what we wanted was to layer in the struggle in a way that didn't bring this family down. And and I'm not sure if you got in the second season, but the beginning of the second season the cold open is Camille's in line for ice cream and she's having a tough time deciding. And the person behind her says, "Just pick a flavor and go back to your country. We don't have butter chicken ice cream." And in that moment, she rips him apart and we put over this classical music and she's like cutting him down and the audience is just like, "Oh my God." And then this guy runs away.
(11:19):
And then she was back to ordering her ice cream. Because when we encounter moments of racism, prejudice, barriers, we have to deal with it and move on with our life. We don't we don't have, like, we gotta go to work, we gotta raise our kids, we gotta go to school, we have to take care of our family. We don't have the opportunity or luxury to be able to be like, "Oh, like let me dissect this and like let me make it all better." It's not all better in the world. It might happen again tomorrow.
(11:48):
And I remember the network note on it was the cold open exist... and they're like we would love like a whole episode and we deal with it. And I would I pushed back and I was like, "We don't get episodes to deal with it. We don't get to just deal with it in 22 minutes and it's better, we have to go to bed and wake up and hope and, you know, just like hope that the world is a better place. And like really that's it. So, for us, it was like creating a comfort show, showing this family living their best life above everything else.
(12:17):
And that was the joy because to me by showing our resiliency and our strength as a family, strength as a community, I felt like it was a good new point of view. And I am really inspired by like like Family Matters was like a show I grew up with, Loving, and like you don't really understand like how important and amazing that show was because at the end of the day Carl Winslow, you know, Harriet Winslow they always just like wanted to take care of their kids, you know. No matter what, no matter what happened at the end of the day it was about the family unit and it was important for me to kind of carry on that tradition of just like, at the end of the day, it was about this family.
Mitu (12:55):
That's cool that you got to honor that show too during the, um, I remember you telling the guidance counselor, it was in this season one episode, that like your parenting advice partially comes from.... or your theory of parenting partially comes from Family Matters.
Andrew Phung (13:09):
(laughs). Like as a, as a character and as a human being, so much of my... Like Carl Winslow, the amount of time... Like firstly the BS he had to deal with Steve Urkle, like, was also like, he, like when I, when my son is just like out of control or like doing something, he's only six, I'm just like, "Okay, be Carl Winslow." And, he, Carl Winslow had this line it was like "1, 2, eh, 3, 2, 1. 1, 2, 3. What the heck is bothering me?"
(13:35):
And Carl would recite that. And I just, I love it because like I think like shows of that era are, are, are something that I love. And, you know, one of the comments we get is like we are a bit of a throwback to that time of having a sitcom you could put on and watch and it doesn't... Firstly, it leaves you feeling good as you walk away, but it is like a slice of life. And that was something we wanted. And it's interesting, again, it's like when the show premiered I know there are some people just like, "Well, it's not like, where's like, you know, it's not really rooted in like Asian trauma."
(14:06):
I'm like why should it be? Like I think it's actually concerning that your programmed and trained to expect only Asian trauma, right? And oftentimes, I find like the children of immigrants are so loving because they are expressing the love they didn't get when they were kids. And I really carry that with me, because I see so many of my friends...
(14:30):
Because I grew up in the northeast of Calgary, which is like very culturally diverse, and so many of my friends, like we are so loving as parents. And we've all agreed that it's because growing up our parents either working like 3 or 12 jobs, they straight up weren't there, or they just, we just didn't have, there's a lack of communication where they couldn't say they loved us, they didn't know how to say it, or the way they showed it wasn't the way we were, we were raised to the expected in like in North American culture, context.
(14:58):
So it was important to show the love of the family, right? But yeah it's, it's, it's, it really, you know, we always remember that with with comfort television. And even like season two, we expand on that, Season three is even more and it's like I think we really lean into it. Just be the parents that, one, people ask like, "I wish we had those parents growing up." Or two, it's the parents I see around.
BJ (15:17):
I think that's so lovely because what you said is exactly what I think whenever I watch an episode is like I wish my parents were like that. They seem so cool and it is really about a happy family. And you do throw in some of the trauma, but you end the episode feeling good, which I feel like we need more shows like that. Mitu and I often talk about the negative things in the world and vent to each other, and sometimes when we watch shows, I just straight up say, "I don't want to show all about trauma." Especially, for me, if it's a show all about slavery, being Black in the South, I don't need 30 minutes to know why that is bad. I can figure that out later. And I think it's good that you can bring some of that in but just remind everyone they're also a loving family just living their lives.
(16:11):
And with that and telling that story, you've created the show, you're an executive producer and you're writing some of the episodes. How do you balance all of those roles and star in the show? You're doing a lot.
Andrew Phung (16:25):
Oh, it's not easy, it's hard. Well, firstly, I have a really amazing team around me, like my my best friend's Scott Townend, he's a co-creator. In season 1, 2, 3, we've had wonderful showrunners. Season two, Anthony Q. Farrell came on board, he wrote on The Office, won show runner of the year up in Canada. I think he was one of the first or like only Black writers on The Office for for a long time. And so having him to kind of like... And he's a dad like me. He's like very much like me so him always like... Him and I always having conversations. In season three, Nelu Handa came up as a writer, season one and two. Now co-shorting with Jennica Harper. Again, lived in the suburbs. Jennica's a mom, Nelu is a South Asian woman, her and I came out through improv together. We still have a great relationship. And so it's like just building a really great team. I have a wonderful assistant, her name is Alexa, And it's so funny because every time I say Alexa, someone's like, "Do you mean like the app? Is your is your sister just like a Google app?"
(17:22):
No, I'm like, you know, it's like a real person. She like works lines with me and she's always like she's, her and I do improv together, did improve the other for years. And she's always like giving me tips on like, she's like, "It'd be really funny if you did this."
(17:33):
So season three, Andrew really leans into being like a dad who's just trying. So she's like, "Okay, do a thing where like when you're talking to the kids you try to dab, and like make eye contact, like you're just like unsure." And it comes out so sad and pathetic, and it's so funny. And we just titled it millennials trying to talk to their kids. So it's, it's really just having an amazing team, and obviously, CBC and Pier 21, the production company, are great, um, but I will say this. It's, it's hard. And I remember in season one, I was a few times I was like really struggling, like I was like stressed.
(18:09):
Firstly, I was dealing with the fallout of Kim's. And this show was fast tracked, it was like we were moving so fast to get the season done. And Catherine Reitman, who is the star, show writer, creator of Workin' Moms on Netflix, her and I would just chat. And she would just write me the most like positive, encouraging messages, just like, you got this. You may go back to your hotel room and cry, but you got this. And like stuff like that, I'm always reminded by the people that were always like really, really supportive. And so she was really great. Ronnie Chang. When Ronnie Chang found out I got the show, he sent me like, no lie, like 1,000 Instagram messages were just like, "Don't let them push you around, don't let them take it away. Don't let them take away your voice." And he just was like, "You gotta fight for your... you fight for your stories and your point of view."
(18:56):
And so like he was so great at it. And like, you know, Paul Sun-Hyung Lee, who's Appa on Kim's Convenience. Carson Teva in Mandalorian, like he's one of my best friends and so he's always just like, "Got it brother, take, you know, always support me."
(19:08):
And so I, I feel like I've, I've surrounded suffer really good people. And obviously, my wife and kids, just like. so this is a side note, but I find oftentimes like I think our parents often hid their struggle or hid or sometimes even hid their jobs from us. If like parents are working a couple jobs or two or three jobs, I think they may have felt it like it was like not a good thing or like maybe like it was a struggle they didn't want to show their kids. Because I think oftentimes immigrant parents are trying to like make life to be the best for their children, that's what they want.
(19:45):
But I actually think my relationship with my dad became at its best when he brought me to work with him. I was 14, legally able to work in Canada, I don't know what it's like in the US. And and he's like, "Do you want to come work with me at the factory?" And my dad ran a metal factory like welding and like medical... sorry metal pieces so either like putting screws in, you know, stuff for like metal frames and stuff. And I went with him and he paid me $6.00 an hour which was like so much money, and it bonded me with him, because I got to eat lunch with him every day for a summer. I got to see how my hands were like sometimes they were cut up, they were so dirty. I came home just exhausted. And I was like, "oh, I get it, I get it."
(20:30):
And so I've really tried to include my kids on the journey of my job. So I bring them to show, if I'm doing a comedy show, I'm like, "Yo, you want to come?" If I'm going to another city to host an event, I'll be like, "Hey, do one of you want to come? We'll make it, we'll make it a guys trip."
(20:47):
I think by them being a part of it, they've become a really big part of my support system in, in my work. And so yeah, it's, it's kind of related to your question like I try to build up really good supports around me, so my family is definitely a big part of what I do, and I think it's like reflected in my work. And because I'm often using what they do in real life and bringing it on to the show. But yeah, it's like having good friends and family around you to be able to do a job. But like in order for this industry to be able to tell more specific stories and more well represented stories, it's what we got to do. We just need creators to be put in these positions, right? And we gotta stop canceling their shows after season. And, you know, I follow so much of the the US trades because like so many of those diversity positions were eliminated in the last year, so many of the BIPOC execs that have been brought up are like gone now so it's like we've got to keep fighting that fight to be able to tell our stories.
Mitu (21:40):
And the shows get taken off streaming not just canceled, so you can't even continue supporting them.
Andrew Phung (21:46):
Yeah, that's and that's such an American thing because like I, you know, we, we get it second hand, because, firstly, when they say like HBO Max or... I don't even get Hulu, I don't even get Hulu up in Canada. So I had to like ask a friend, I'm like, "Can you screenshot the Hulu page?" Because I can't. I can't I can't even buy, I can't even VPN or bootleg it because my visa is like located in Canada, so they won't even let me. But yeah, that's wild that shows are being taken off, and, and, and I'm I'm hearing stories about it. And like knowing that making a season of a show is a freaking miracle. Like so many things have to go right to make a season, it would break my heart when it's pulled or not even aired, not even put on the streamer.
(22:28):
Yeah. But yeah it's just a great support system, it's, it's really how I'm able to do the jobs and, and, and, uh, always being tired. (laughs).
BJ (22:39):
(laughs).
(22:39):
I feel you on all of that. And speaking of that great support system, you also have a great cast and I feel like it's a nice balance. One of the things that Mitu and I really enjoyed was that we're moving away from sitcoms where it's like the goofy husband and then the wife who can't get in on the fun as well. This is a great mix. And what's really cool is you balance everyone's storylines really well. Like it's not just the parents and, oh, we see the kids in the background doing things. Everyone has their own moment to shine and their own plot arc throughout an episode. So how do you, I guess, plan ahead to balance everyone in the cast so they get their time to shine?
Andrew Phung (23:22):
Just comes down to the writing. Well, firstly, with the casting, it's like casting people you know are going to be dynamite. And so, you know, obviously... Like one of the, my favorite is like they'll watch the pilot episode and be like, "I didn't expect that from your wife. Like I didn't expect Camille to be such a bad ass." And it was really important that when we set the pilot, we made it very clear that Andrew and Camille were 50/50. They're equally irresponsible, equally responsible, equal in the game. And one of my favorite lines from season three is we look at each other and we say to each other, "I'll support your bad idea if you support my bad idea." And we're like, "Deal."
(24:08):
And we high five. And it's in that moment, it's like it has to be common so they have to get into trouble so it's the bad idea, but they got each other's back no matter what. They're also the first person to tell their partner, "Hey, you're wrong." And, and I think that's important that the characters are able to have flaws and have wonder... strong moments where they're like their characters being very thoughtful. So yeah, it starts with with with with Rakhee Morzaria, and then every cast member like I could talk to the journey of casting every person. Like the kids, like, the hard part and this is like you know as we dive deeper into it, so many of the kids that were auditioning for the show had been raised through like a Disney system where like...
(24:50):
Okay, let me explain it. It's like the way they were doing the lines was very much like, "Oh, when are you going to be home from school?" Like it was just a very, you know... there's like a Disney-esque thing which isn't bad because I I really appreciate and value Disney shows. But it's a bit of like trying to break that out of them, so with Zoriah, she literally did her audition sitting in a chair eating popcorn. And I'm like, this kid doesn't care and I love it. She was like a true teenager. And I found out later on that Zoriah hadn't done any of those Disney classes, she was like... her mom, her mom had trained her and her mom was an actress, so I just felt like she didn't, hadn't gone through that system.
(25:28):
And then with Roman, it was he had come through the Disney side, he had done the kids TV shows, but there was like this innocence about him that was just so charming. And then we knew that we're like, okay, if he spends time with us, we can get him on board, we can get him in the system. And he's so funny. Like he's at his funniest when I tell him to stop trying to act like what we want, what he thinks we want, just to be himself. And stuff he does is so good.
(25:56):
Ali Hassan, who plays Ramesh, Jonathan Langdon, who plays Hudson, my neighbor, I knew it was him even before we did the scene. Like we got in a room and I just was like we were just like...
(26:06):
Firstly, Zoom. We like, because this show was launched in COVID, so I didn't meet any of the cast members until we were on set. But like in even just in the back and forth, I was like this is my guy. And, and so yeah, we're just like... Julie Nolke was a writer on the show, she has a big YouTube channel, and so she it was easy to work with her. And Rakhee was also a writer on season one, so like, you know, for us it was like looking people that really close knit. But in regards to casting, like we're like really thoughtful on who we cast because like I think at times like... We cast, firstly, like a lot of people we cast are from the improv world, so it's people we perform with. So recently, I did a show with a performer, got off stage, texted Nelu, the show runner and was like, "So and so?"
(26:49):
She's like, "100%." Offer was made two days later, you know. I'm always looking...
(26:55):
And like on Instagram, I'll be like someone will like, you know, like the show and I'll be like, "Yo, come play with us next season."
(26:59):
And they're like, "Yeah."
(26:59):
And I'm like, "Let's make it work."
(27:02):
So I got like a little running list of people we like, but then even in auditions, if there were auditions for other roles that like Kimmy Truong, my sister on the show, had auditioned to play Sam, who's played by Julie Nolke. I wrote down, she's Vietnamese. I saw the last name, she's Vietnamese, I, she's really good, bring her in for the callback for my sister. She was giving me the goods in the callback, just like chopping me down. I'm like, "That's my sister. My sister would cut me down." And she spoke eloquent Vietnamese, and it was great. And so we're always like looking at people. And like sometimes, it's like two or three season thing where like someone we cast this season three was like literally sent in a tape in season one. And I'm like, "We got to find the right role for them."
(27:42):
So it's just, it's, it comes with the writing, it comes from the casting, and when you have good people, you could like give them things. You could like just like be like, "Go do this thing." And I don't know like 'cause Kardinal Offishall is in the pilot episode, but I don't like... Kardinal Offishall was like he wasn't in the US for a very long time. And so but Kardinal is like a big Hall of Fame rapper up in Canada, still very young. But like he was one where I'm like, "I don't know if he's gonna be funny. Like I don't, we don't know." We offered him the role, we just straight up, because we wanted Kardinal.
(28:12):
On the set, Alicia Young, our director, was like "Kardi, could you sing this line?"
(28:17):
And Kardi's like, "Okay," and just does it. And at one point, he's sitting with Jonathan and I and is like, "You guys are hilarious, bring me back."
(28:24):
I was like, "Oh, okay. We'll bring you back."
(28:27):
So it's just having a great cast, and then the writing you're, you're, you're, you, you're aware of what they're capable of. But I also go back to supporting the performers. Like in in season three, we wrote really... We made a big jump for the kids. Like we were, we just like the thing is Khia is turning 16, 17. Rom... Leo's turning 13. We got to see them grow. And and obviously, like also with Khia's storylines, like her storylines with her relationships are going to evolve and get bigger, right? And so we needed Zoriah as the performer to take that jump. We hired an acting coach to be on set with them. And he did such a wonderful job. Doug, like just working through the scenes, teaching them the nuances of comedy. Zoriah took an improv class like during the year with adults. Like I set her up with like a theater company that I was, I, I thought was really good, she went and did the classes. Roman was doing Second City. Like these kids, like, they they elevate their game.
(29:25):
And so everyone is just working on their craft, and so that's how we give them the time to shine. It's so easy. Like it's, it's actually hard because we gotta cut certain things, because like...
(29:36):
Oh, there's a scene in season two where Roman comes in and he's like, "Oh, I can't wait to hop on that horse."
(29:43):
And I was like, "Okay, Roman, do it again." And we have, we have the take. "Roman, go again but give me the sound the horse doesn't make."
(29:51):
He's like, "Oh, okay." He's like, "I can't wait to get on that horse." *Makes odd high-pitched sound*
Mitu (29:54):
(laughs).
Andrew Phung (29:56):
I just thought it was so funny that this kid, in his head-
Mitu (30:00):
(laughs)
Andrew Phung (30:00):
... thinks that's what a horse sounds like. And just was like confused now. Like that's a conversation for later. So it's, he's, you know, they're on the spot. It's like, "Go improvise this thing."
(30:11):
And they're like, "We got you."
(30:13):
And oftentimes, in the show a lot of like I think the scenes that are people's favorites are those improvised moments and lines. So yeah, and that's a long answer to get to like that's how we let the cast shine. They shine on their own, we are just like trying to spotlight it.
Mitu (30:28):
That is so cool to think about, you know, the fact that you started this show on Zoom, or the the makings of it on Zoom, because I think about the chemistry that you and the cast have. And I know that you call out the characters of Hudson and Leo, and I think about with Hudson... I was just rewatching the season two finale ahead of our conversation, and I think about when you need your like bathroom time and he puts his headphones on and those scenes just, like how cute you are as friends, how funny. But also just like the intimacy and closeness of your relationship. And then there's the scene with Leo where he's like growing up and he has this, a little mustache that he's drawn on. And there's a scene where he gives you advice about, you know, we try not to do spoilers in The Pilot Podcast, but you get an opportunity for a dream job, we'll say. And he tries to kind of dad you and you get up and you go, and he stays sitting there and he tries to drink a cup of coffee as if he's an adult. Like, ah, "I was a good dad." And just the scene of him like really trying, like picking up that coffee cup, taking a sip and then being like, gross, I'm actually still a kid, like this is disgusting.
(31:43):
I was cracking up at that scene. It was just so funny. You mentioned improv and and how you met a few of these these people that you get to play with on this show through improv. I'm curious about how much of that you're bringing in? So your cast members are taking classes, how much of your improv expertise is coming into Run the Burbs?
Andrew Phung (32:05):
Well, you know, so many of the performers if they're adults have been doing comedy as a career, you know. And so that's easy. And then the kids are like taking improv classes. What we try to do is we try to do at least two takes where it's clean. We got to get the line, we gotta get the line as is. Because you got to respect the writers. The writers have put hundreds of hours into writing these scripts. And then when we have it, the director often will say like, "Just do something, just try your thing here. Now stay within the lines, but try the thing you were trying to do."
(32:34):
And I will say, a lot of the stuff with Andrew and Hudson like, in, in season two, there's this thing where we're like, "Oh, there's the most handsome man on the block."
(32:43):
I say, "Oh, are you looking at a mirror?"
(32:44):
We go, "Mirror, mirror," and improvised. Like so many things in the show like those big moments are improvised, because like we'll get to set, Jonathan are like, "What do you think of this scene?"
(32:56):
And then Rakhee and I, a lot of stuff in the bedroom when it's just her and I were like, "What are we thinking? What's the dance we're trying to do?"
(33:02):
And so it's really fun. It's really fun to to do all that. Or even the scene... We did an episode of season two where it's done in real time, it's done in 22 minutes. They're trying to get out of the house, which if anyone knows like if you're a family trying to leave the house it's like one of the hardest things in the world, especially during a snowstorm. And so many moments in that episode are improvised because it was like it was almost shot like a play, because the way the lighting rig had to be done. And we were kind of going in and out of scenes.
(33:26):
So yeah, it's always just like... And I think performers are really comfortable with their directors. And so our directors are really open to improve improvisational comedy as long as it doesn't break apart the script. Like it has to honor the script, like whatever it does has to feel like right for the script. So what I find... And it's what happened on Kim's [Convenience], it's tops and tails. Tops and tails often leave the most room for improvisation, because you're like improvising the way you enter a scene, which is like just really natural. And then you improvise the way you end the scene, which gives it a little punch. So I think performers are always looking in that sense. Or it's like, I find the improvisation isn't even always like the lines, it's just like little reactions or like hand gestures or movements or like looks is what is really, really conducive to like television. So, so yeah, it's just like we're always encouraging play, we're trying to be very playful on set while maintaining a bonker schedule to, to, to just finish a season. Like it's like just a miracle every time, like everything has to break the right way.
(34:35):
And I'll even say this, like in the first take... So we shot episode two, season one first. And I remember we were shooting that day, and, uh, we were like maybe like one or two days into the production, and there's like a kerfuffle behind the scenes. And I don't know what's happening, 'cause I don't know what's happening. Sometimes I don't want to know until the end of the day. And at the end of the day, or no, even later in the week, I was like, "What, what happened?"
(35:01):
Scott told me. He's like, "We told the director to avoid shooting any of the walls because they had pictures of Roman Pesino on the wall."
(35:09):
I'm like, "Why?"
(35:09):
They're like, "We were worried that we were going to have to recast Roman, because there is an issue that he was on another show."
(35:15):
And I'm like, "Oh my God. I'm so thankful you didn't tell me this." Like, like within the first week, we were almost going to have to recast my son, like that's... the, the miracles that have to finish. And I just joked, I'm like, "Oh, man, can we have started the series with like a son in mind and it becomes a three person family, there's no son, it's just a daughter?" It's like because we lost the son, and he was the first person we cast. Like was the first person we cast. So it's just like a miracle. But yeah, it's, it's a lot of improvisation, it's a lot of just like problem solving. And we have such a great team of problem solvers, like when we run into a problem with logic, jokes, set up, time, it's, we have such a great team to solve the problems and find solutions to it that oftentimes I think make things more funny.
(36:02):
But, oh, I leave you with this, this is also really funny. In a Lunar New Year episode of season one, my mom comes in and yells at me. And in the rehearsal, she looks, she looks around and then keeps doing the scene. And I stopped and I'm like, "Why did you look around?"
(36:16):
She's like, "I was looking around for someone to hit you with."
(36:19):
And I'm like, "Hit me with it."
(36:21):
She's like, "Yeah?"
(36:22):
I'm like, "Where do you... how about you take off your shoe and you hit me?"
(36:26):
And she's like, "Are you sure?"
(36:27):
I'm like, "I would love it."
(36:29):
And Joyce Wong, I look at her, I'm like, "Is that cool?"
(36:31):
She's like, "As the Chinese woman growing up in a... this is too real." So in rehearsal she's just working me with this slipper, and I'm like...
(36:42):
We cut to the take, her shoes weren't those slippers, her shoes were high heels. (laughs) So in the take, she smokes me with this thing, and my reaction is genuine. I'm like, "Ah." (laughs). And it's like, you know. And, and I was fine, I consented to it, but it's like that's when you discover stuff that is specific, that it's funny, that is relatable, that is that gives that energy. So we really encourage like in the blocking if you see something let's pitch it, let's make the scene as well most robust as possible. And it's something I learned from Kim's [Convenience]. That's we did that on Kim's [Convenience] a lot.
(37:16):
Our director really nimble to like use our improvisation. Kimchi was always up to like stupid stuff. Kimchi was always doing stuff. And and so they're always like, "Yeah, that's great, just keep doing it." And so I carried that with me to the show.
BJ (37:30):
And I got to say, just put it out there, the [Lunar] New Year's episode is my favorite episode.
Andrew Phung (37:35):
Aww, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you're to love this season, we got it, we got a new... We, we do one every year, we do a Lunar New Year episode every year, and someone asked me like, "Hey, how about you do a Christmas episode?"
(37:44):
And I said, "Why? Every show does one. We can do then, one, but, they, not every show can do a Lunar New Year episode." And the truth is the same conflict that will come from your Christmas episode is very similar to the conflict that will come from the Lunar New Year episode, but what I want is the specificity of the Lunar episode. I want to showcase my culture in a very beautiful way.
(38:08):
And so people will be like, "Hey, you do anything for Christmas?" This is my personal life.
(38:11):
I'm like, "I don't know, making nachos." Like, like, like, it's...
(38:15):
And they're like, "Oh."
(38:15):
And I'm like, "Nut you gotta come during Lunar New Year. We rent a hall, we hire a Vietnamese DJ that's like 65 years old, we hire, there's a karaoke machine, we bring in decorations, it's fully catered, there's 150 of us, like it's a party." And I'm like, it's just, it's just we celebrate different hol.. we put our energy in different holidays, right? And I think that's what we're trying to do with this with the show, it's just showcase and invite people into our home. Because that party, Lunar New Year, I remember 20 years ago Lunar New Year felt like a very like, within the Asian community. Now Lunar New Year is celebrated, especially in Toronto, everywhere. And so it's just really welcoming people into culture. So I think that's the power of television, the power of story... the storytelling isn't to like exclude. Storytelling and television is to include, is to welcome you into the world and I think that's really important with the work that with that the shows are doing right now.
BJ (39:09):
And so to switch things up a bit, we see that you're going to be on Last One Laughing Canada, it looks like such a funny group of people altogether. How did you face that challenge of not laughing?
Andrew Phung (39:25):
Uh, so the week leading up to production.... Last One Laughing is like 10 comedians in a house, the last one laughing wins money for their charity. It's like 100K, so like in Canadian dollars 100K grand prize for like... Because like when you, when y'all have like Who Wants to be a Millionaire or like Family Feud, it's like a big chunk of money, we, we, we don't give away that same amount of money, our shows are smaller budget. So it's 100,000 was a big deal for charity. I practiced with my kids and they would, we would just, I would just like sit and they would just have to make me laugh. And my kids are so funny. My mom, my, my, my wife would have to do stuff. But I, I remember being in a house and thinking, okay, I got this, and I didn't know anyone that signed up for the show, like all of us were kept in dark. And I remember with the first door opening, Colin Mochrie walked in. Colin Mochrie is one of my improv idols. He is Whose Line Is It Anyways legend. I was so nervous. I was like, "Oh, no I'm going to get messed up." Tom Green walks in, and grew up watching Tom Green, MTV Generation, you know. John Lajoie, Mae Martin. I just was like, "Oh, no these people are so good."
(40:31):
But I will say something happened where I just slowly killed my soul, just like in, in the house, I just was like slowly like putting it away. And there were moments, like I remember watching a thing, and I'm like that's freaking hilarious, and just like doing that. And the wild thing is I went to go shoot Run the Burbs two weeks later and there were moments I had to remind myself to start laughing again. (laughs) Because like I was like, "Oh, oh yeah," like laugh because like I was still in this Last One Laughing mindset. And so yeah that show is available on Amazon Prime, it's it's airing now, I'm so happy with how it went. And I think a format like that works so well because inherently what I learned was all the bits that made people laugh weren't the bits that were planned, they were improvised in the moment things. And so it's just a reminder of like comedy keeping it light, keeping it fresh, and not being stuck on a line or a way something is, it's just like finding the comedy and bringing that to the show, like we're trying to find the comedy.
(41:30):
But yeah, that was, that's like a heavy hitter group. Blown away. I've talked about being EP, creator, star, there are moments where I feel like how am I even here? Like I'm just, I shouldn't even be here. Imposter syndrome and that's often that comes up with BIPOC creators. And so just reminding myself that I've earned the opportunity to occupy this space. But, you know, I still feel it.
(41:53):
Caroline Rhea was on it. I did 40 shows where I opened for her, like she rolled into the house and like it took me back to like 10 years earlier where I opened for her for 40 shows. And I didn't think she remembered me, right? And so it's like, it's, those are very humbling experiences. But, you know, I'm I'm just so thankful I got that opportunity.
BJ (42:12):
That's awesome. And I believe you are where you're meant to be. You've earned it, you deserve it. And I want to know do you have any other projects coming up that you can tell us about?
Andrew Phung (42:22):
Well, right now up in Canada, we're making, you know, we're airing season three of Run the Burbs. It will be coming to Hulu in the near future, Hulu has the rights to it. It's always kind of what happened with Schitt's Creek and Kim's Convenience and Workin' Moms, like you'd come to US a few months later. 'Cause Kim's [Convenience], when it got to the US had two seasons. And so up in Canada, it was like the popularity jumped. And what's wild is like once Kim's went to the US and got big, it's like when it popped up in Canada because it's like there's something so Canadian of like it kind of has to go to the US to like be perceived... Like the biggest thing you could do is like leave Canada. And I'm like, oh, no I want to stay in Canada. I love this country. And so it's been so nice seeing this reception to season three and the response to season one and two on Hulu's been so nice. So making season three, I'm still in post on season three, and then it's, it's, for me, it's like looking, what's the, developing other projects so I'm really excited. A couple of projects I'm involved with right now. And it's like that's the cycle if you're working on other things.
(43:21):
And so what I usually try to do is I try to do a couple features every year. I have two features that it did last year that really excited about, a comedy where it's like the Nancy Drew and the Hardy boys were like kids, teenagers and they solved crimes, but they witnessed a lot of murders. They, they grow up and they're really messed up from all the murders they witnessed. (laughs) Like it's solved. So that's a comedy that we finished, huh, last summer.
(43:44):
And then I made a movie that is about gambling addiction in the Asian community, which is a very serious addiction. But it's not a comedy. And I remember making, shooting this and I had just come from Run the Burbs, so like I was like fresh a week off from Run the Burbs, making this movie, and we do a scene, director comes up and she's like, "Hey, Andrew, if you can, can you play this scene like 90% less funny?"
(44:05):
And I'm like, "What?"
(44:06):
And she's like, "You mine every line for comedy, so you're making the crew laugh. It's just too funny."
(44:13):
And I'm like, "My apologies. I just came from a com... I need to like really dull it down, play the drama there." So we made that. I'm really excited about it. I've heard nothing but great things. And that's with Olivia Cheng from Warrior on on on HBO Max, Netflix. It was canceled on HBO Max... Wait. It was on Showtime, went to HBO Max, and is now on Netflix. Y'all streaming situation in the US is bonkers. I, I don't, it's like that one friend who keeps moving and I'm like, "Where do you live now? Where are you living?"
(44:47):
And so, and Terry Chen, who's starring in Wild Cards right now on CW, so like really excited for that project. But yeah, developing a couple projects because something that I've loved about Run the Burbs is like, I think one of the skills I've developed and learned is like the ability to create. I'm really good at writing episodes that fit certain time frames, budget numbers, storytelling arcs, and I think I'm really good at developing series so like that's what I'm interested in now. So and in order for our stories to be told, it's like, I've often asked, what are we going to be representation? It's not more diverse actors, there are many diverse actors, many actors of all backgrounds. It's creators, it's showrunners, it's executive producers. So I'm trying to make my stamp in that world in order to tell more of more variety of stories. Yeah, because it's the only way to go forward, because like when we...
(45:37):
Like I'm always blown away. Like when we were casting my cousins in season two, my California cousins, because California Vietnamese, California Asians are like on another level. We got 2-to-300 auditions for each character, and we were getting auditions from like Atlanta, California, New York, Philadelphia and they're just like we never get to audition for funny roles for Vietnamese actors. So the actors and performers are there, it's the creators, it's the DP's, it's the editors, it's the boom mic operator, it's the make... hair and makeup department. When we were, three years ago we were having conversations around Black hair and how Black performers would have to come and set and do their own hair because no one on set can do it, you know, we're trying to be like, well, you solve that by making your departments more diverse, right?
(46:24):
So I think that's what I'm really interested in on the back end of things.
Mitu (46:30):
That's really, that's just a lot. (laughs)
Andrew Phung (46:32):
Yeah-
Mitu (46:33):
I'm just processing what you shared.
Andrew Phung (46:34):
It's a lot, yeah.
Mitu (46:35):
No, but I I'm really grateful for all of these things and I'm excited to check out these projects. One of the things that, um, my friends and I always joke about is like when we eventually like process, you know, the quarantine portion of the pandemic, one of the groups of people we have to thank is the Canadians, because like, Schitt's Creek, Kim's Convenience, Workin' Moms, like almost exclusively got me through just being in my house uninterrupted for like a year. And so I'm just excited to keep checking out your projects. Run the Burbs is definitely in that canon of just like very comforting and funny shows, and so excited for these other projects. BJ knows that I'm like obsessed with mysteries, and one of my favorite questions about these like Murder She Wrotes and Nancy Drews and things is, what do you do when you once you've seen like the 10th person die in front of you? Like what is actually the aftercare for that? And like these small towns and these like Murder She Wrote type stories where it's like has 20% of the population been like murdered by the butcher? Like what is happening?
(47:39):
And so I'm very, very excited for what you have coming. And we always ask this question to the creatives who we are very grateful to join us for these conversations. What advice do you have for people who want to make it in this creative industry? I, I saw in your bio that one of the ethos you go by is you learn by failing, but I'm curious if you want to elaborate on that, if any other advice?
Andrew Phung (48:04):
Yeah, I get a lot of like people reaching out like young actors reaching out like what's your advice, and I'm like I don't think I could tell you a thing that's going to unlock it, because like my journey is different from your journey. Like all of our journeys are different. Like I booked Kim's Convenience in 29, I didn't think TV and film was going to be my thing, so much of my work was in live stage work, improv comedy, hosting, corporate MC'ing. And so I booked himself out of a Fringe Festival show. Like in Ins Choi came to my Fringe show, saw me do improv, and got me to audition for Kim's Convenience. So I'm like...
(48:37):
What's important though for that story is like, he didn't come, it wasn't just being lucky. He didn't come and just watch a show, he came and saw my show that I had spent like hundreds of hours working on. And it was a two person action movie based on an audience members life. So we would interview an audience member and then we would turn it into an action movie. So if you're like if you were a teacher we would get some details, we're like, "We present to you, the teacher." And it's like sets up, we're like we're playing all the characters, like the one character is teaching one day and then there's like a bomb threat at school and the teacher has to like shut down the class, and then like they're just like, "There's a teacher on the inside, they're more than a teacher." And she's like, "I got a dark past. All right. A former green beret," like I, you know, like, that's usually...
(49:24):
And we would do the whole action... we would play all the characters. And so there's one scene in particular, I always played a, a gang that was trying to take down the teacher, and the gang was always a family, and there was always like 12 siblings. And I played all twelve siblings, all... I would name all the characters, we all had different weapons. And so like that's thousands of hours of me working on improv. He saw the best version of myself.
(49:52):
CBC saw the best version of me and the reason I got there was because I spent all that time doing it because I loved it. So I tell people like my biggest piece of advice is like, don't look at acting, if that's what you're looking at, or directing or whatever, and see like the glitz and the glamour because that is literally .0% of the work, like that award show or that cool premiere happens one night out of the year and it's filled with many, many sleepless nights or long days. So you have to love what you do. And so when I started doing improv when I was 16, I was told repeatedly by people around me, "You know you're not going to be an actor. There's no funny Asians."
(50:34):
And I did it because I loved it. I did it not because I was trying to be a funny Asian, I did it because I just loved it. And it didn't really matter whether or not I made it because it was like my side hustle. Improv was like my side hustle, I had a job, I went to university, I had a full nine-to-five and career that I loved. And it wasn't until 2012, where like my side hustle was actually bringing in the same amount of money that my job was bringing in. And it just was saying yes to opportunities. And it was just trying to get better and better. And I had some rough shows like some terrible shows. But my artistic director at the time would say things like, "Well, you get to come back next week and try it again. You're allowed to fail."
(51:11):
And I'm really working on that with my kids. I'm really encouraging failure or allowing us to fail, that's something in Asian culture, like, or immigrant culture even like. Because like your parents like, "I didn't come to this country so that you can goof around, I didn't come this country so you could try to be a DJ."
(51:25):
Like, you know, like they want us to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, right?
(51:30):
And so it's encouraging failure but like at the end of the day, I loved it the failure didn't matter. And so, if you love acting, love it. And I see actors giving up at 23 'cause they don't break. Samuel L. Jackson didn't break until he was like late 40s, early 50s. I always remember that because I'm like Samuel L. Jackson, one of the biggest blockbuster stars in this industry. And like look at Ke Huy Quan, like, what a story, what a story, loved it as a kid. Couldn't do it, the industry didn't want him, but he still loved it. When he came back, loved it.
(52:08):
That's why we're all cheering him on. And this is a side note, but maybe a year before he, he made Everything, Everywhere All at Once, I was interviewing him at the Fan Expo in Calgary 'cause that's where I was living. I was interviewing him, Sean Astin and Corey Feldman as the Goonies reunion, because I did a lot of corporate hosting. I'm really good... and I'm a fan, so I love interviewing people and shows. And I see him, and he comes up and he's like, "What are you doing here?"
(52:37):
And I'm like, "What?"
(52:37):
He's like, "I love Kim's Convenience." And he hugged me and said, "I'm so proud of you." And he said, "All the young Asians are making me get the itch to go back to acting, because I love it so much."
(52:50):
Two years later, he wins an Academy Award. You gotta love it, no matter what the obstacles are, whether it's you, your family, whether it's the industry saying we don't want you, you have to love it. And, and you may not be successful, and Ke Huy Quan is a good example, he may never have been successful again, but he loved it so he was fulfilled in what he did and he was always going to, you know, always had that hankering to get back, and goddamn how good was it when he got back, right?
(53:18):
And so yeah, I always tell people, I'm like, "You love it? You love long hours? You love being on set?"
(53:24):
And so this past season, my son, my little son six years old booked a role on the show. He audition, you know. Little role, he's a trick or treater, did the Halloween episode, very exciting for you to see that. We do three takes and he's like, "Dad, can we go home?"
(53:41):
I was like, "What?"
(53:42):
He's like, "Are we done? Are we done?"
(53:43):
I was like, "Buddy, those three takes weren't even your coverage. It was someone else's coverage, you got to do it."
(53:50):
We do the scene like maybe 20, 30 times because of all the coverage. At the end, he's done, he's wrapped for the day, he looks and he said, "Dad, let's go home."
(53:58):
I say, "Oh, buddy, I'm, I gotta stay all day."
(54:00):
He's like, "Till when?"
(54:01):
I'm like, "1:00 AM. I gotta stay till 1:00 AM tonight."
(54:04):
He's like, "Oh."
(54:05):
I think in that moment he realized, one, how hard that's working, so it's that moment there. But two, he doesn't love it yet. It's not for him, he doesn't love it. Afterwards, like, you know, he didn't bring out auditioning again, or like I brought up thing like, "You wanna do this?"
(54:18):
He's like, "No, I'm good." He's like he knows it. And I'm like great, doesn't love it, I'm not going to make him do it. I'm not going to make him do it so you got to love it no matter what. Love what you do.
Mitu (54:28):
That's really good advice for any career. I really, really receive what you're saying. And just before we close out, where can we and our listeners find and support you and your work?
Andrew Phung (54:40):
Ah, you know, follow me on Instagram at Andrew Phung, P-H-U-N-G. Follow Run the Burbs Instagram account, watch us on Hulu, watch Kim's Convenience on Netflix, watch Run the Burbs on Hulu, watch my boys Simu and and and in the 9000 movies he has coming out. Watch Last Airbender, and I know you're going to review that with Paul Sun-Hyung Lee. I know you're going to review that. I'm so... because like him and I would talk like every few days when he was shooting that, and his facial hair was growing out, I'm like, "Dude, this is so exciting."
(55:08):
And I remember when that show was announced, it was one of the rare times fans would, did your dream casting and every Dreamcast was him in there. And then I was like, it's a no brainer, it's a no brainer. So excited.
(55:22):
Watch our work, consume our work, um, support us, tweet, share. But yeah they can watch me there. And genuinely like, a show like Kim's [Convenience] going to US, we had, there was no marketing budget, it was all word of mouth. Right now, I'm seeing it with Run the Burbs, seeing people like on me like, "Yeah, someone recommended it to me, what is this show? These main characters are me, and like I love it."
(55:43):
And so it's just finding our audience. So please share word of mouth, but, and, but honestly, thank you for the work you do, like they're so few reviewers right now, there's less and less reviewers. And then as I said earlier, less reviewers of color who can actually see something and just like take a moment to dissect it and properly evaluate it for what it's trying to be.
(56:04):
Sort Of is another show on CBC that I love, that's on HBO Max. And it's like... Firstly, what is... Canada makes like just amazing television, like, for a show like Sort Of to exist, but like a show like Sort Of, a show like Us, a show like Shift, a show like Kim's [Convenience], we all represent this country, right, all very different shows. And so as you said, we held... Workin' Mom... as you said, held you over in COVID. Now that quarantine and COVID is over, please keep watching our work because that's really what what will help us continue to make good television for you.
Mitu (56:35):
Uh, I love that call to action. We will absolutely keep supporting and, um, we will also make sure to have all the links in the description when this comes out. And thank you so much for joining us.
BJ (56:48):
Yes, thank you Andrew.
Andrew Phung (56:49):
Yeah, thank you for having me.